Device Details
Device Overview
| Name/Version: | Track Stereo Pan 2.0 |  |
| Author: | ssrmpc | |
| Description: | This device enables true stereo panning via the track's panorama knob and applies the appropriate gain correction derived from the channel summing. Ableton Live does not support stereo panning. If you pan a stereo signal Ableton fades one signal out. Testing the normal Ableton pan knob: You can test it by creating a Midi track containing Analog that produces two different waveforms for the left/right channel. OSC 1 > Filter 1 (0% to F2) > Amp 1 (pan full right) OSC 2 (+1 octave) > Filter 2 (100% F2) > Amp 2 (pan full left) If you play a note you'll here that the left and the right channel have a different sound. Once you just pan the signal via the tracks panorama knob you'll hear that on signal vanishes completely, since this is no stereo panning. New pan knob behavior with the enabled m4l device: By simply adding the M4L device into your track, the pan knob mixes the signal into the other channel you panning in. Like that there's no loss in the audio information. Mr. Urple Eeple created a excellent tutorial on youtube explaining the situation. Here's the link to the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGi9WPjF-n0 As a matter of fact it was him that made me program this device. |
Device Details
| Downloads: | 15273 |
| Tags | effect, utility |
| Live Version Used: | 9.1.6 |
| Max Version Used: | 7 |
| Date Added: | Jan 24 2014 11:58:14 |
| Date Last Updated: | Mar 01 2015 04:53:06 |
| Average Rating (4) | 5 |
| Rate this device: | (must be logged in to rate devices login) |
| Device Type: | audio_device |
| URL (optional): | |
| License (more info): | AttributionNonCommercialShareAlike |
Device Files
| Device File: | _P4R - Track Stereo Pan v2.0.amxd |
Comments
| Always welcome, thanks. Note that there is also the "Max PanStereo" device in the M4L Building Tools pack. |
Posted on January 24 2014 by kleine (report) |
| Well.. this device does a little more than the "Max PanStereo". The plugin is remote controlled by the tracks pan knob and also automatically applies a gain correction. |
| Hi ssrmpc. This is a great device, however, you should just made the 2 pan knobs "stored only" because as it is now, it conflicts with the automations and thus the BTS/ BTA buttons as soon as something is recorded. Cheers. |
| Acually the device doesn't always work correctly. Most of the time the left/right gain reduction is applied but not the panning. I didn't really examine the device, but it simple and it might be a simple bug. I'll have a look and let you know. |
| Nice device - but it causes problem with automation and undo history. I have posted more here https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?p=1599637#p1599637 |
Posted on April 15 2014 by AndriesDuToit (report) |
| Dear all I apologize for the late reply. Due to an accident I have had no time to spend with Ableton and Max4Live. Never the less I will investigate all the mentioned issues and provide a fix as soon as possible. Cheers -Marc |
| I uploaded a fix. The device pan knobs are "visual interpretations" of the track pan knob only. They are not active anymore, should not save data and create automation data. Therefore all the issues should be fixed (I hope). In case you need to automate the panning please use the track pan knob. Please download the new version 1.6 Cheers -Marc |
| sadly this still suffers from an automation bug, if i set the pan to be automated it writes all the movements of this plugin into the undo history. hopefully this can be fixed as its a great plugin to have best Al. |
| Well I tried to reproduce the issue but the pan knob automation worked well. Never the less I created a new version after removing the knobs of the plugin's presentation. The plugin knobs were just visual representations without any functionality but they caused a lot of confusion. The plugin itself should not create and/or store data itself. The track pan knob is analyzed in order to calculate the stereo pan shift for both audio channels. Please keep me informed regarding issues. I try to provide a solution as soon as possible. |
| Hey ssrmpc, I think I know what issue some people are talking about. Unfortunately it's still happening with v1.8 . I'm using Live 9.1 64-bit running in Yosemite. To help you reproduce it, I'll try to use as much detail as possible. Basically, if you make one move of the knob in a direction with your mouse (meaning I clicked, moved, and released, so should be one motion or command) it adds a whole list of moves to the "undo" list. You can try it by disabling a track (or clicking any other button that you can turn off then back on). Then, in one move, swing the pan knob all the way to the left or right. Then see how many times you have to press "command-z" or "edit-undo" to see that track you disabled and reenabled before, actually change. It's a lot of clicks. It also seems to mess with the list and not let you "redo" every now and again. This all happens when you also draw automation. The moment I create some breakpoints and move them, without even hitting play, the "undo" list is already filled with commands. I'm not sure it has to do with the visual of the pan knobs in the device. It's as if while you are moving the track's pan knob to a particular position, Live is remembering a bunch of moments in between before you let go. Does this make sense or help? My main reason for posting this is because I hope it's fixable. I love the device so much but having it mess with the undo list (especially when I'm in the mix down process) is kind of a deal breaker. |
| Hi grimm146 Thank you very much for this explanation. I will certainly try to solve this issue. Cheers -Marc |
| Dear all I uploaded the latest version. The device does not contain anything that will be stored and/or can be automated. The issue was related to the device pan knobs that I introduced in version 1.0. These knobs were meant to be a visual interpretation only, but caused a lot of confusion. Furthermore the knobs could be automated and had the "store" feature enabled. To make a long story short... I removed everything that is not needed. If you have to automate the panning you have to automate the track mixer panorama knob. Well then, I hope you'll all download the new version and give the device a good rating. Cheers -Marc |
| When I export from Live for each track that contain this plugin only one channel is rendered. Anyone else having this issue? |
| @blioux Hi there I can not reproduce your channel problem. I rendered the audio, moved the track to another location rendered it again, etc.. The audio got rendered exactly as shown in the track meter. Can you provide me a sample project? I honestly can not think of what causes your problem except panning full left or right. If you provide me more data then I'll try to help you. Cheers -M |
| Thank you for researching it. I'll try to get you something tomorrow. |
| yes please! you'll find my email address in the main patcher in case you want to send me the link of your project download non-public. I am confident that I'll find an answer once I get your demo project.... and I am really curious why the device causes an issue in your project. |
| @blioux I didn't receive something until now. In case you sent me something it didn't reach me. |
| Thank you very much for making this device. Works perfect for me. |
| Hey Marc, thasnks for the great device, I just created an account to let you know of an issue that I encounter. I usually modulate panning through the clip parameters. In the arranger for the track that the clip is present, I would right click on the Track Pan and select "Show Modulation". The "Track Panning" parameter is then available to me to modulate for a particular clip. I have noticed though that modulating the pan like this bypasses your device and pans the sound with the default behaviour. Do you think it would be easy for you to modify the device so that modulating pan from the clip also works as expected? Thanks again for your great work, Marc... |
| Hi gerogem The bad news is... I am on a chemo therapy.... the good news is I should have time to look into it. The problem is I can not guarantee a quick solution. Never the less I understood that you need to modify the pan via clip envelope... and I accept this challenge. Cheers -Marc |
| Hi georgem There is everyday something new :-) I never used "envelope track panning modulation" so far. As a matter of fact I might not help you without investing time and energy, since the above functionality does not "move" the pan knob. The modulation is done in the background and is therefore currently undetected. As a workaround you could use the clip "envelope Track Panning" instead of "track panning modulation". This moves the knob. Since I was not aware of this Ableton Live function I will have to dig into the manual in order to get a deeper understanding of what is done under the hood. But this most likely takes some time. Cheers -Marc |
| Hi georgem I consulted the Live-Object-Model (LOM) in order to find the "panning modulation" parameter. To make a long story short.... I couldn't find it. Obviously the Ableton Programmers did not foresee the need of receiving the panning modulation values via Max4live. Sorry -Marc |
| Thank you so much for this, been using it for years now. By chance, is there anyway to change the pan law with this? |
| what pan law do you need? With this device it's not possible since it was never a topic. Never the less if you explain me the different pan-laws or give me a link to a page that explains the pan-law.... I might be able to put that into a new plugin. |
| First of all - Hope your health is fine!! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_law https://samplecraze.com/tutorials/the-pan-law/ Here is a good thread where they are talking about this perhaps it can help. I am providing direct link but whole thread is short and easy to understand even though you probably don't use Reason. https://forum.reasontalk.com/viewtopic.php?p=565079#p565079 From working at consoles I always find that 4.5dB (constant not linear) was best. For some reason it provides the easiest mixing (to my ear). Cubase have selection where you can select between more pan laws. Anyway something as 3 or 4.5 switch on your paner could be perfect., Keep up the good work and stay healthy. |
| I did forget to mention most important thing. Even if you don't have time for adding more pan laws - I am finding way way easier to mix with your device versus not having your device loaded in a session. Thank you!!! |
| Very useful device adding a feature to Live's Mixer Ableton should have implemented for a very long time but never did. I agree on the fact that pan laws would be a genuinely great additional feature. But I'm still grateful for this utility I use on every project. Thank you. |
| Great device! - All the best for your treatment :) |
Posted on September 27 2021 by ZedWilliams (report) |
| I cannot believe that Live is still lacking this. Amazing coding. Thanks for this. Works like a charm. |
| Thanks for this one. Very useful and great max patching. |
| Live has true stereo panning since L10 (or was it L11?): simply right click a track's pan knob and you'll see the option appear... |
| Can you update the device so the pan knob is in the device itself? |
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